Thomas,
I will give it som thought.
1. The Rev title is humerous and you dont have to see me as a Rev
2. Compared to some real mode Rev's, I'm one fine Rev without hesisation.
God Bless
Rev BII
JoinedPosts by Rev BII
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Martha's hope *G*
by Rev BII inyour borned again biblestudent is in his humerous mode;.
john 11:20 when martha heard that jesus was coming, she went and met him, while mary sat in the house.
21 martha said to jesus, "lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
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Refuting (some of) Yardirf's Nonsense
by Rex B13 in...and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places, in christ jesus... -eph.
rev.
he doesn't go out of love for new york, for he knows nothing about the place.
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Rev BII
The difference between protestantism and true apostolic faith which the WT applies quit often (but definetly not always) is that such a faith is based on the whole Bible. That's both the OT and the NT, and by the NT not only the Gospels but all of it.
Protestantism tries to neglect the requirements of those going to heaven and call them exagerations, they are not, the saints gives everything to God;
1 Corinthians 6:10 - nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,
1 Corinthians 6:10 - nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Phil 3:18For many walk, of whom I told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 3:19whose end is perdition, whose god is the belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. 3:20For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 3:21who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself. (ASV)
The people Paul speaks of here were all believers. But some of them
didn't fit up.The saints are to drink the cup of Christ's pain on earth;
Matthew 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee came up to him, with her sons, and kneeling before him she asked him for something. 21 And he said to her, "What do you want?" She said to him, "Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom." 22 But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am to drink?" They said to him, "We are able." 23 He said to them, "You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father."
Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: (KJV)
Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 16:25For whosoever would save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it. 16:26For what shall a man be profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? 16:27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds. 16:28Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
They get rewarded rich for their labour;
Eph 1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: 1:4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 1:5having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 1:6to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved: (ASV)
1 Corinthians 6:3 - Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life! (RSV)
Revelation 20:4 - Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.
Only God can elect these saints. It wouldn't surprise me if a great deal among those that expect to become saint do not become so and vice versa.
Now Rex's hope goes only to those that believe and happen to hear, in his world billions are tormented in hell as we speak. The Bible goes further;
1 Corinthians 15:21 - For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead (RSV)
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
1 Tim 4:10 For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe.
When Adam, allowed by God, fell in Genesis 3, he died and so did his children. Death is in our veins. But through Jesus, a resurrection have been provided. God, who sees and knows all past present and future, wants the humanrace to have the opportunity to do wrong BUT the will to do right.
1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
John 5:29 - and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment
The resurrection of life is the one the saints get in Rev 20:6. The rest get a resurrection of judgment, not life, and ON EARTH. Therefor they are still death.
Revelation 20:5 - The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Then the trial where satan is kept looked up for 1.000 years. The billions will have oppurtunity to get life here, in world with no satan and no inherited sin to poison their surroundings, and those that fail will die the 2nd death, no resurrection (rest of Rev 20). After this, heaven will come down to the (new) earth.
Jeremiah 31:29 - In those days they shall no longer say: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
Jeremiah 31:30 - But every one shall die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edgeSo, the scene is, luckily for the billions, 'a bit' brighter and broader than the one Rex tells of and sees as the truth. To the believer, the notion that the NT is primarily written to the saints, changes nothing, he still knows what God requires of him as minimum;
Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
Dear Rex,
you are rigth we miss something in common ground. When reading the NT, the only authority I use to assist me besides common sense is the OT. Once again, I have debated the trinity for ages. So you can't turn me just as you persist in your views. But still, if you have some killerquotes you think solves it all, post them and I will comment on them. Don't expect me to have any interest in checking out your protestant sides. I have 'been there' you see and it's very uninspiring.
God Bless
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Any Young doubting JW's?
by swyzzel ini'm 18. i wonder if there are any other people as young as me.
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Rev BII
I'm 26 and neither JW, exJW, traditional christian or atheist. I'm a biblestudent. This is a great place to hang out.
God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
btw 'russellites' don't go from door to door. They know all will get a resurrection, as all are victims of sin and that the faith isn't for all people under these conditions of the world. They enjoy much more to comfort people and help them to gather treasures in heaven, discuss the Bible with people that know it and defend it against those that think they know it and make evil teachings thereof.
God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
Rex Rex.. Ok I found your links in the old thread after some search. You must be nuts if you think I would search through all those links. Calm down, not so aggressive, you are up against one that have read all the scriptures you can come up with but... go find a few verses you think proves it all and I promise you I will deal with them.
Basically the thing Jesus is God is just bad OT understanding and a bad understanding of the word 'God'. Jesus is a god, satan is a god. Angels are sons of God and Jehovah call Logos/Jesus his own, the Son.
Basically Jesus was a man on earth. Send by God. Only by this could be pay Adam's sin. He had fear on the night of cruxifiction and his Father was in heaven and comforted him. The trinity doctrine teaches Jesus and God are the same, they are not. The father says the Father is stronger than him. A typical traditional argument is that Jesus only existed as the Son on earth, but that's not biblical. Jesus went to heaven and sits on his fathers side... In John 17 we get the whole story. In John 1:3 and Col 1:15-16 we see the role of Logos, as the masterconstructer. Independent trinitarian theologs admit that it's 'likely' that Logos is spoken of in Proverbs 8 and that he is also symbolized by the woman crying out in the street (also somewhere in Proverbs). John 1:1 says the spokesman and the one he speaks for are the same. Well they are in the sense that they are one to man. It also says the spokesman was with God, see not so difficult is it? Trinitarians try to put in the mouth of non trinitarians that the Son has his own will that is in disaccordiance with the Father, but no, the Son is the servant for of the father (as OT shows, see Psalm 2, see Isaiah 53), 100% obedient. Again we see that trinitarians in their terrorreign, trying to push on litterate translations of some verses and leave out others. But alas, we 'russellites' don't apply by those rules. We follow the Bible, only. Not babylonian doctrines. No way honey. We are not like such people, agreeing to swallow doubtful doctrines to escape a hell only existing in the misguideds minds.
You don't like Genesis 1 anymore ehh? Logos was there, assisting Jehovah.
Oh, now it makes sense! The Son is a god but he's also a servant. He's Jehovah's masterconstructer.
God in the OT uses servants to communicate with. Jesus was such a servent. It's really not that hard. Read Ezekiel 28 of Lucifer, and see more of how God deals with angels.
Bite me quiz boy, please educate me. Calm down, breath smoddly and make up a few verses you think explain it all and I will deal with them. Promise. But mind you, I have seen them all before :-).
The traditionals sola scripture is worthless, the power limited and soon end just like satans. They neglect verses where Jesus says he's not as strong as his father. Ergo trinity is WRONG. Now go get a doctrine that explains all verses. Go learn what a god is, a mighty being. But only one to pray to and only one to be mediator and in whos name to pray (as Jesus says.....).
1 Corinthians 8:6 - yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ASV)
- confirming everything I said.
God Bless from Rev, a nontrinitarian soon to be veteran
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Martha's hope *G*
by Rev BII inyour borned again biblestudent is in his humerous mode;.
john 11:20 when martha heard that jesus was coming, she went and met him, while mary sat in the house.
21 martha said to jesus, "lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
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Rev BII
Ok joke aside, none has protested sofar but I might add that it's most likely that that Jesus and Lazarus had spoken together often. It's also most likely that Lazarus believed when he died, but still this little situation cast doubt over traditional doctrine. Why on earth would Martha want to see Lazarus at the last day? Couldn't they meet in heaven then? All those people that believed, where were their death relatives? Could Jesus only resurrect people that had just died? Why didn't he resurrect tons of people? Seems nasty that he wouldn't make them escape hell. You that believe, where are your unsaved friend? Or father, mother? How come the prophets called Jesus a deliverer although they were death and buried when he came? What does the OT tell of the death? Why would Jesus tell another story of the death when he was the fullfiller of OT prophesy? How come there will be a resurrection?
God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
Please also tell me where he claims to be God himself? Nowhere, only twisted interpretations of what he says based on misinterpretations of who/what Logos and his role is. But this could be fun anyway. You and I read the Bible very differently, I look forward to shoke in my coffee hehe. The main thing is that a 'russellite' read the whole bible in context and feel he can understand it all, while a traditional, much doesnt make sense and they pick and choose what fits their need, and a lot do as much can be interpreted wildly if you leave out other verses, as a real russellite once told me, 'you get assured by God's character by readint it all, both the 'good' and the bad'. (Do I see flames now?).
As for now I'm gone.God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
hahahh,
there you really got me. uuhh that hurt. I will leave my faith and join babylon, they are sooo biblical.
Now quiz boy, tell me where the angels are in this? Just think a bit.. let you scared mind rest for a moment... where are they in this? Do we hear of their creation..?? No, guess they were already there..... What about Logos, the spokesman? Who was he? Who did he speak for?
Now quiz boy (to further debate or other 'proof' verses from you), if a king builds a castle, does he nessarily say: ohh I ordered Jack to be my masterbuilder and he had these guys working for him: (speaks for 15 minutes). Or do he just say: 'let my will be'!
Now what do you think trinitarian?
God Bless
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rev BII
BTW, under the forum 'beliefs', then 'identity of God', this is debated too.